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I am familiar with those two. the early list is for the 1st & 2nd crusade. I am working on the 3rd crusade, as mentioned in other posts here and on Facebook.
That list (generic V1) has a bishop, but not the special rule. so it seems to be more or less the same as a noble, just with different stats.
That got me to wondering if I missed anything.
Incidentally, did you ever get the 3rd Crusade list I emailed you as mentioned on Facebook a couple months ago?
One of the reasons I am working on my own list is their is no unit for the Military orders for the later crusades – and that is no fun.
In any case, the “0-1” restriction doesn’t work as there was often at least two (Templars & Hospitallers) & I don’t think they played well together (i.e. putting them in same unit doesn’t make sense, not to me anyway).
This is what I have so far for the Crusaders:
Armies of the Third Crusade
Characters Cavalry Support SIP
0-25% 40% + 0-50% Pooled w/ king
PERSONALITIES OF WAR
Type Moral Life Strike SIPs Add SIPs ZOC Pts
Warrior King (0-1) 9 3 +2 2 +1 @ 20 15” 190
King 8 2 +1 3 +1 @ 20 10” 150
Noble 9 2 +2 1 +1-2 @ 20 10” 150
Captain 8 1 +2 1 – 10” 80
Bishop (0-1) 8 2 +1 1 +1-2 @ 20 10” 110
Personal Standard 8 1 +1 – +5” 70
Personal Standards Kings, Nobles & Bishops may have personal standards
AV & equipment As unit; AV4 if mounted & moving alone (AV3 otherwise)
Captains May not leave assigned unit
CAVALRY (Mounted & dismounted)
Mounted CA SA KA Mo AV Form Shock Pts
Knights 4 3 3 8 4 Reg +2 26
Sergeants 3 3 3 7 3 Reg +1 16
Equipment Knights: Horse, heavy armor, shield, lance, mace, hand weapon
Sergeants: Horse, light armor, shield, thrust spear, hand weapon
Options Knights may have barding @ +2;
Special Rules Combined formations;
Military Order Add Resilient (+1) & Fanatical (+1)
Dismounted CA SA KA Mo AV Formation/Special Pts
Knights 4 3 3 8 3 Regular 13
Sergeants 3 3 3 7 3 Regular 10
Equipment Knights: Heavy armor, shield, throwing spear, hand weapon
Sergeants: light armor, shield, throwing spear, hand weapon
Options Knights may have two-handed weapon @ +2
Type CA SA KA Mo AV Formation Pts
Turcopole 3 3 3 7 2 Light cav; skirmish 17
Equipment Horse, shield, thrust spear, bow, hand weapon
Type CA SA KA Mo AV Formation/Special Pts
Spearmen 3 3 3 7 1 Reg; combined 10
Archers 2 3 3 6 0 Light Infantry; combined 7
Crossbows 2 3 3 6 0 Light Infantry; combined 10
Equipment Spearmen: shields, thrust spear, hand weapon
Others: bow or crossbow, hand weapon
Options Light armor: spearmen +1; archers or crossbows +2
ADDITIONAL & OPTIONAL RULES:
Lionheart Increases morale value of king/warrior king to 10
Gives +2 morale bonus to all units in ZOC (10 max) +70
True Cross Gives 1 standard additional +1 morale bonus to units <=15” +100
Faith Given to personality or units. Allows for additional D6 on morale tests. Roll again: D1-3 Faith is “used up” on D4-6 may use it again +15
Combined Formation May combine knights & sergeants into one formation. Up to 75% of the formation may consist of sergeants. So long as over half the front rank consist of knights, the whole formation may use the knights Morale Value & Shock Charge rating.
Brilliant, I was sure someone else had done one, but off hand I can’t seem to locate it so it might be on an old pc and mislaid when we changed forums
So happy to help put one together.
Cool. I’ll get working on it
I would like to make a list for the 3rd Crusade – both sides. The current ones don’t really work for me.
For example, the book IV list on later crusades lists “Military Order” allies but there is no such list to be found.
That would be better I think.
I would like to help out. I’ll send you an email.
I got them Didn’t have any particular comment. I’ll take another look.
Veteran Macedonian Phalanx
Table says “trained Phalanx, drilled”
Comment underneath says “Drilled +2 per model”
(perhaps a ‘cut & paste’ error from regular pikemen)
As long as we are at it, any special reason the Macedonian strategos doesn’t come with SIPS or the ability to purchase more (the Taxiarchs & hipparchs do)
I have always been curious why there is an early Achaeminid Persian list (Which I presume is for Marathon, etc) but not a later one for Alexander to face…
It was devastating in my last battle
I also think they should get a Greek Heavy cavalry option.
All the OBs I have seen show them.
The Hypaspists AV is wrong. The list gives them light armor & shield but says their AV is zero. It should be 2.
Perhaps a simple fix would be that pikes cancel out the phalanx benefit for shorter weapons (like spears)?
So in a pike v spear phalanx battle – spears fight like normal spears.
Ah. Forgot to look up phalanx rules.
I see your point.
As I understand it, pikes fight in one more rank than spears:
1st round, charging: Spears 1 rank, pikes 2
1st round defending: Spears 2 ranks, pike 3
subsequent rounds: spears 3 ranks, pikes 4
Merc Peltasts in the Thracian list should have AV1 (they come with shields)
The subject hoplites give an armor value of 3, but only list large shield, so looks to be corrected to either:
AV3 = large shield light armor
AV2 = large shield
I suppose point value may need to be corrected depending upon above
In the Indian list, it says: Special: Porus may be deployed on an elephant at the start of the battle for 15 points and may not leave it.
I presume that means that you have to “buy” an elephant from the rest of the list for Porus’ mount and not that Porus only has to pay 15 points for an elephant.