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Early Byzantine list 
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Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 1:38 am
Posts: 1
Post Early Byzantine list
So, having left my early Byzantines unfinished with the demise in our group of WAB, now that we are (finally) talking about playing W&C I wanted to finish them. Looking at the list in the book, it seems my figures are closer to later Roman?

Has research now indicated that the cataphract horseman (heavy armor, barding and kontos) had disappeared by the times of Belisarius and Heraclius? Also, no combined formation with archers in the infantry?

Just curious, I probably have enough cavalry either way, and I can just use the Late Roman lists if I want to include the heavies.

As I go through my other WAB armies, I am sure I will have a lot more questions.

Mark


Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:10 pm
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:02 pm
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Post Re: Early Byzantine list
The short lists in the army books were all stop gaps to encourage dialogue and create proper 'full' lists - I did start a list on the Early Byzantine period, as I have several books on the topic, and also an army - but some assistance on completing the list would be helpful as I am definitely no expert - if you want a draft drop me an email or just post up here the differences between the long later Thematic Byzantine list which you can find in its own topic and the Early Byzantines and I can start finishing it off.

Otherwise, harass me as I really should complete long, full lists for armies that I actually own and enjoy losing with :mrgreen:

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Rob
http://www.scarabminiatures.com
www.warandconquest.co.uk


Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:27 pm
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Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 5:29 pm
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Post Re: Early Byzantine list
Hi - I've been playing WAC for about a year, the current Early Byzantine list has 3 errors:

1. Boukellarioi and Kavallarioi should have short bows, it was their main weapon. The light lance + bow is typical of the Boukellarioi (retinue of the Byzantine "Patricians") and slowly spread to the regular army Kavallarioi.

2. There were some remnant Clibinarii units, so there should be at least a a 0-1 half-barding upgrade option for a Boukellarioi unit.

3. Byzantines dismounted their Symmachioi cavalry more than once, they are nobles and retainers, IMO they should be like the Eastern Foederatoi in the Patrician list

As an aside to 3, they dismounted the Symmachioi as they did not rate their own infantry so IMO a CA 4 for skoutatoi is too high, and a CA 3 is better - the infantry were 2nd rate troops in this period, (the Limites more like 3rd rate) so I'd field them as something more akin to the Patrician list's Border Auxiliares as standard, with the option to upgrade them to the current Early Byzantine Skoutatoi if its a field army/veteran unit rather than a Limitanii (border) unit.

Also - a hobby horse of mine - I'm not sure the formed archer units of the late Eastern Roman army ever went away, its impossible to prove one way or t'other, but I'd like an option for 0-1 Late Eastern Roman type Border Sagitarii unit at least


Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:10 pm
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:41 pm
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Post Re: Early Byzantine list
I'd like to see an Early Byzantine list


Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:53 pm
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Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:41 pm
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Post Re: Early Byzantine list
Having had a look at the Late Roman Army list, I think that could be tweaked to make quite a good Early Byzantine list.

I'd suggest letting the mounted Comitatus the option of adding a short bow, kontos, barding for the horse and a +1 rank bonus so they cover the Bucellarii. Also letting the Shock Cavalry have the option to add a short bow too.

Best wishes,
Simon


Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:55 pm
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:02 pm
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Post Re: Early Byzantine list
Thanks Simon - that's a fair point and easy to apply

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Rob
http://www.scarabminiatures.com
www.warandconquest.co.uk


Thu Sep 29, 2016 8:45 pm
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