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Gripes 
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Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:05 pm
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Post Gripes
A couple of general points on WAC concern me. The first is that some lists are restrictive while others are permissive in regard to similar troop types. An example is Gallic warbands in the republican Roman and Macedonian Successor lists. In the first the warband is restricted to CA3 and has no option to adopt light or extra armour. In the latter contemporary Successor armies can choose from the Warband List and field an entire band of personal retinue with CA4, light armour, shields and Mo7 for 12 pts a man.
The second, related gripe is that some lists contain large numbers of troop types and it is possible to construct an army from those lists with a preponderance of CA4 and AV3 or greater with, say, phalanx bonus. Cost is not prohibitive as for example a mercenary hoplite with CA4, thrusting spear, shield and light armour costs only 13 pts. CA3 ought to be the norm with no more than 1 or 2 elite units at CA4. Otherwise those operating from more restrictive lists are at a big disadvantage as I found out this week when my hastati and principes were all but destroyed on the first round against CA4 warbands, hoplites and pike phalanxes.


Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:08 am
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Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:05 pm
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Post Re: Gripes
Another problem with the republican Roman list in my view is that velites are far too expensive at 9pts. True they have good morale and a throwing weapon but this is only relevant against an army with traditional spear or javelin armed skirmishers. I have now twice encountered situations where opponents don't field these but use archers supported by low quality light troops. If the velites attempt to close within javelin range the enemy simply declares a charge with the light formation and the velites are forced to flee. This is the case even where the light formation comprises say peltasts similarly armed to velites and costing less per man. Historically the velites would have engaged the peltast formation.


Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:42 am
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Post Re: Gripes
Well I guess a simple answer would be to suggest 'keep the velites'out of the enemy frontal attack zone' but I appreciate (as I am not at the table with you to see) that such a simple statement is easy to say but can be difficult to do on the table top! :mrgreen: (I actually keep my skirmishers to the rear or flanks as much as possible and move them up as the battle lines start to get closer this often fails as well, so possibly not sound tactical advice!)

I did spot a post about velites on facebook recently and whilst the points value is correct I do think they could do with something extra to help them with rallying when near friendly maniples, and so I plan to add something in on that basis soonish.
Ditto the Roman maniples, I shall look at either an option, or an auto upgrade to CA4 - any thoughts on that, or anything else related to the list more than welcome

As for Allies, without looking at the lists in detail I can't really comment on what they can and can't have, but I will try and remember when I do the RR new version and look then.

One thing on the RR is that the maniple system can deliver great rewards if you can catch your opponent using the support, its possible to get a whopping +4 CR before dice are rolled

Regarding the CA4 troops, they do cost more than CA3 troops so in theory, you should outnumber them, allowing for wider formations or a spare formation somewhere to get a flank or an overlap. Point noted on the access to CA4 troops but not sure a limit would be appropriate for the list itself as the Successors did have access to a wide range of troop types and mercenaries, others who know more about the period would be better positioned than me to comment on that

Anyway hope that at least helps a bit in the short term and the next version of the list is a bit more useful!

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Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:57 pm
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Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 9:46 pm
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Post Re: Gripes
I use the Gravesend Seleucid list here at home and Kevin got mixed up with the Scarab Successor list, I only had two CA4 units in the field, the Galatians and the Mercenary Peltasts. I don't know these armies as well as my other armies so have to go with the flow on these. I do however wonder if the Galatians would still get Warband as from what I can see they were well armoured and integrated into the Seleucid ranks and therefore may not be considered an actual Warband, but I confess this is only conjecture on my part.

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Tue May 01, 2018 8:21 am
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:02 pm
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Post Re: Gripes
Hi George

That’s not a bad thought for those better armoured types. I will hold onto that thought when I update the list.

Some warbands do have access to the ‘boldest to the front’ rule for the opening round so your idea would creat a better difference

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Tue May 01, 2018 11:29 am
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